Wolverine and the X-Men 1x07, 1x08
Sep. 18th, 2020 10:25 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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tori_reviewsWolverine and the X-Men 1x07: Wolverine vs. the Hulk
Going by the title, I suspected going in that this one wasn't going to have a lot that appealed to me, and I was right. I have some questions, but nothing that truly sparked my interest.
Even I know that Hulk and Wolverine fighting is an overused idea, and this is the only thing I've actually seen it in, and don't remember seeing it last time through. It's also very in keeping with what this show turns out to be when you're watching it slowly and methodically like I am this time: it's an action show. So of course they would choose to include the most often referenced fight especially for Wolverine. And it's just about as boring as that sounded to me going in. If you watch the show for the action, you might get more out of it, but this does not cater to my interests.
To start small, I can't decide if I approve of the commentary that this kind of fight was something Wolverine used to find fun but now he doesn't jump at it. In theory I think that's an interesting angle to take; that having found himself in a leadership position he's taking it seriously and not going off to do his lone agent stuff. But I also think it could have been as or more interesting if Wolverine was chaffing under the constant need to be his most teamwork based self and now did jump at the chance to do things solo. Not that the series has actually been writing him as being that teamwork focused, which is a bit of a strike against either track they could have taken.
My next questions all kind of come from the same place; of this show/ episode not making its history clear in the story. So much of this series has asked us to fill in our understanding of the world, characters, and conflict, from other sources where we've seen them; but then you get stuff like this where that cultural osmosis learning doesn't help or even hinders understanding the workings of this show.
The big one is SHIELD. Yes, in the MCU, SHIELD has a long history that we only kind of understand how it worked and what they were working on; but having them here now doesn't compute in my brain. Because why the MRD if SHIELD also exists? I could put it down to division of labor (understood mutant problems as opposed to unexpected other threats), but the show would need to give me something before I'll grant it. If SHIELD continues to show up they might, but I feel it's entirely possible that they only exist for this adventure to get the ball rolling and let Logan still look like a decent hero.
I have fewer questions about Hulk, but still some. It's possible, even probable, that Banner created the Hulk in a world without an assortment of superheroes, but there are mutants. Where the MCU had people trying to replicate the super soldier serum, maybe this was an experiment to create artificial mutants in case people find they need their own monsters to fight the perceived mutant threat. But because I'm accustomed to thinking of Hulk as part of a more diverse universe of heroes, I have to wonder what other Marvel characters are out there but we're not seeing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, even thinking about the comics I view the treatment of mutants as somewhat odd considering the other enhanced people out there in that world. If you already have contact with other alien races and alternate dimensions, maybe mutants wouldn't reasonably face the kind of prejudice they continue to have to deal with. So this is raising the specter of what other prominent heroes might think of all the mutant hunting going on.
And then there's Logan. Even this episode seems really confused about his backstory; in relation to Hulk and SHIELD, but also raises more general questions. I'm used to Logan not having a lot of memories about his backstory, so when did he work for SHIELD? Was it after the memory wipe but before he joined up with the X-men? When is that supposed to be exactly since he has apparently been with the X-men long enough to be considered a candidate for leadership. How is Hulk a 'sparring partner' of Wolverine, but Bruce doesn't actually know Logan? I could have constructed an elaborate backstory about the two of them either being put to train together or just repeatedly running into each other out in the wilds where they just wale on each other because they can, but eventually, Logan would have met Bruce. Then again, Logan seems to know everything about Bruce and the Hulk, but Bruce doesn't know Logan even as a recognizable member of the X-men?
Surprisingly this is one of those weird episodes that I'm actually more lenient on than I might be. Sure it raises problems and I had to bring them up, but this feels so inconsequential that I have a hard time being bothered by it. When I have issues with the way all sides are Mutant debate are portrayed, that feels important, but this is just a wasted episode of a show I'm not all that invested in. It's lower tier, but I'm not angry at it.
Wolverine and the X-Men 1x08: Tome Bomb
On the whole I liked that one. It maintained the problem of insisting on more action per episode than I feel is necessary and does so at the expense of deeper story; but it's not as bad in this one. There's enough character work (mostly with Rogue) and enough hints at other story beats (mostly with Emma) that it doesn't feel as out of whack as several episodes have.
That does leave a bit of a gap in how well this story explores its ideas, because it is trying to have them. This kind of highlights why I'm more interested in Brotherhood stories than a lot of what I've been getting. I feel conflicted when mutants are fighting humans or the MRD, because I feel this show (and other X-men/otherwise enhanced stories) ignore how much moral grey area there is on issues here. To the point where it isn't a clash of ideas, because to acknowledge the ideas would be to have to admit there's a grey area. But when deal with the Brotherhood/other mutants it is a clash of ideas, and as this episode shows can venture into the grey area.
Because Nitro is a threat. He's a good person who doesn't want to hurt anyone, but he's not in control of his abilities. Lava girl a few episodes ago was the same way but the show ignored that threat and portrayed the MRD as the clear bad guys. And yet I'm torn between thinking that now that they know what they're dealing with, there could have been a better way to help him gain control of his abilities; and thinking the show doesn't go far enough with the moral crisis it puts the characters in. Partly because, if the MRD are such bad people, I question how handing the exploding man over to them is a good idea; couldn't they be just as likely to use him as the Brotherhood?
Before I go too far , I want to point out that the show missed a trick that I was expecting by halfway through the episode. Could Rogue help him shut down his powers somehow? I could be wrong, I can see that going badly if the powers just transfer to her and she has no more control of them than Nitro, but with the episode giving their relationship room the breathe I just assumed it was coming.
As I sometimes do, how about a run through of how my brain dealt with this episode.
-Is this the guy that kicked off the comics' Civil War. It seems like the power I heard was involved.
-I'm also pretty sure Nitro was his name, so now that they've named him I pretty sure of that.
-Don't any of you have a way to stop the exploding man?
-...This is just Heroes isn't it?
But with less death, which is what I mean when I say that I don't think this goes quite far enough; even if I know this is a kids show so it wasn't likely doing a 'by any means necessary' debate. However, in a different show, that actually could have been an interesting way around one of my other problems with the show (though, Heroes also found a way out of killing their exploding man, but they at least had the discussion).
I continue to not understand why Xavier selected Logan to lead the X-men. Since Logan is the only one Xavier is talking to telepathically, I would take an explanation that implied that Logan was easier to contact; but while this continuity seems to imply that Logan's been with the X-men for a while, I would think Charles would have a better connection to Storm or Cyclops who he's known for a lot longer with connections that have been established since they were kids. If perhaps Wolverine needed to be in charge because he's the one who Charles could use to do the 'by any means necessary' things that might be required to change the timeline, that could have been an interesting angle. I know there are continuities out there where Xavier is written as that kind of manipulative bastard; I just highly doubt this is one of them.
As a small aside, Bobby has been such a non-character that even as the Brotherhood plane was icing up, I was assuming it was Storm messing with the environmental conditions. Kitty has been more of a character than he has, and she's mostly characterized by her very useful power set.
My big question of the episode though, is why is Rogue still wearing all her X-men gear? She's turned her back on them, even if for a while she justified it as them turning their backs on her and casting her out into the world. Again, not knowing enough of the larger mythology at work here; are the Brotherhood a known band of terrorists? Wouldn't her running around decked out in X-men symbols while working with a terrorist band of other mutants perhaps send an awkward message about where each organization stood?
I also wish we'd had another Rogue episode since episode 2; one where we saw the Brotherhood as, if not the good guys (because kids show) at least a view into their justification, and we understand why Rogue would want to ally with them. Say if the Brotherhood had been after the suppression collar, just to keep it out of the government's hands, because the Brotherhood wouldn't want that any more than the X-men. Show that Rogue does actually like these guys, and feels like they're more proactive in the real fight for mutant rights than the X-men are. And yet we could still see that their methods are not okay, that they go too far or don't care about collateral damage (not that the X-men do that much), that could be how Toad got captured so Rogue sees that the Brotherhood aren't super loyal to their members if their mood changes.
Because this episode feels somehow both like Rogue's been with them a while and has gotten beaten down and regrets her choice to join, and like she just joined up and is still just doing it to spite the family back home. A middle step on that arc could have helped with that a lot.
More of this, less of the Hulk.
Going by the title, I suspected going in that this one wasn't going to have a lot that appealed to me, and I was right. I have some questions, but nothing that truly sparked my interest.
Even I know that Hulk and Wolverine fighting is an overused idea, and this is the only thing I've actually seen it in, and don't remember seeing it last time through. It's also very in keeping with what this show turns out to be when you're watching it slowly and methodically like I am this time: it's an action show. So of course they would choose to include the most often referenced fight especially for Wolverine. And it's just about as boring as that sounded to me going in. If you watch the show for the action, you might get more out of it, but this does not cater to my interests.
To start small, I can't decide if I approve of the commentary that this kind of fight was something Wolverine used to find fun but now he doesn't jump at it. In theory I think that's an interesting angle to take; that having found himself in a leadership position he's taking it seriously and not going off to do his lone agent stuff. But I also think it could have been as or more interesting if Wolverine was chaffing under the constant need to be his most teamwork based self and now did jump at the chance to do things solo. Not that the series has actually been writing him as being that teamwork focused, which is a bit of a strike against either track they could have taken.
My next questions all kind of come from the same place; of this show/ episode not making its history clear in the story. So much of this series has asked us to fill in our understanding of the world, characters, and conflict, from other sources where we've seen them; but then you get stuff like this where that cultural osmosis learning doesn't help or even hinders understanding the workings of this show.
The big one is SHIELD. Yes, in the MCU, SHIELD has a long history that we only kind of understand how it worked and what they were working on; but having them here now doesn't compute in my brain. Because why the MRD if SHIELD also exists? I could put it down to division of labor (understood mutant problems as opposed to unexpected other threats), but the show would need to give me something before I'll grant it. If SHIELD continues to show up they might, but I feel it's entirely possible that they only exist for this adventure to get the ball rolling and let Logan still look like a decent hero.
I have fewer questions about Hulk, but still some. It's possible, even probable, that Banner created the Hulk in a world without an assortment of superheroes, but there are mutants. Where the MCU had people trying to replicate the super soldier serum, maybe this was an experiment to create artificial mutants in case people find they need their own monsters to fight the perceived mutant threat. But because I'm accustomed to thinking of Hulk as part of a more diverse universe of heroes, I have to wonder what other Marvel characters are out there but we're not seeing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, even thinking about the comics I view the treatment of mutants as somewhat odd considering the other enhanced people out there in that world. If you already have contact with other alien races and alternate dimensions, maybe mutants wouldn't reasonably face the kind of prejudice they continue to have to deal with. So this is raising the specter of what other prominent heroes might think of all the mutant hunting going on.
And then there's Logan. Even this episode seems really confused about his backstory; in relation to Hulk and SHIELD, but also raises more general questions. I'm used to Logan not having a lot of memories about his backstory, so when did he work for SHIELD? Was it after the memory wipe but before he joined up with the X-men? When is that supposed to be exactly since he has apparently been with the X-men long enough to be considered a candidate for leadership. How is Hulk a 'sparring partner' of Wolverine, but Bruce doesn't actually know Logan? I could have constructed an elaborate backstory about the two of them either being put to train together or just repeatedly running into each other out in the wilds where they just wale on each other because they can, but eventually, Logan would have met Bruce. Then again, Logan seems to know everything about Bruce and the Hulk, but Bruce doesn't know Logan even as a recognizable member of the X-men?
Surprisingly this is one of those weird episodes that I'm actually more lenient on than I might be. Sure it raises problems and I had to bring them up, but this feels so inconsequential that I have a hard time being bothered by it. When I have issues with the way all sides are Mutant debate are portrayed, that feels important, but this is just a wasted episode of a show I'm not all that invested in. It's lower tier, but I'm not angry at it.
Wolverine and the X-Men 1x08: Tome Bomb
On the whole I liked that one. It maintained the problem of insisting on more action per episode than I feel is necessary and does so at the expense of deeper story; but it's not as bad in this one. There's enough character work (mostly with Rogue) and enough hints at other story beats (mostly with Emma) that it doesn't feel as out of whack as several episodes have.
That does leave a bit of a gap in how well this story explores its ideas, because it is trying to have them. This kind of highlights why I'm more interested in Brotherhood stories than a lot of what I've been getting. I feel conflicted when mutants are fighting humans or the MRD, because I feel this show (and other X-men/otherwise enhanced stories) ignore how much moral grey area there is on issues here. To the point where it isn't a clash of ideas, because to acknowledge the ideas would be to have to admit there's a grey area. But when deal with the Brotherhood/other mutants it is a clash of ideas, and as this episode shows can venture into the grey area.
Because Nitro is a threat. He's a good person who doesn't want to hurt anyone, but he's not in control of his abilities. Lava girl a few episodes ago was the same way but the show ignored that threat and portrayed the MRD as the clear bad guys. And yet I'm torn between thinking that now that they know what they're dealing with, there could have been a better way to help him gain control of his abilities; and thinking the show doesn't go far enough with the moral crisis it puts the characters in. Partly because, if the MRD are such bad people, I question how handing the exploding man over to them is a good idea; couldn't they be just as likely to use him as the Brotherhood?
Before I go too far , I want to point out that the show missed a trick that I was expecting by halfway through the episode. Could Rogue help him shut down his powers somehow? I could be wrong, I can see that going badly if the powers just transfer to her and she has no more control of them than Nitro, but with the episode giving their relationship room the breathe I just assumed it was coming.
As I sometimes do, how about a run through of how my brain dealt with this episode.
-Is this the guy that kicked off the comics' Civil War. It seems like the power I heard was involved.
-I'm also pretty sure Nitro was his name, so now that they've named him I pretty sure of that.
-Don't any of you have a way to stop the exploding man?
-...This is just Heroes isn't it?
But with less death, which is what I mean when I say that I don't think this goes quite far enough; even if I know this is a kids show so it wasn't likely doing a 'by any means necessary' debate. However, in a different show, that actually could have been an interesting way around one of my other problems with the show (though, Heroes also found a way out of killing their exploding man, but they at least had the discussion).
I continue to not understand why Xavier selected Logan to lead the X-men. Since Logan is the only one Xavier is talking to telepathically, I would take an explanation that implied that Logan was easier to contact; but while this continuity seems to imply that Logan's been with the X-men for a while, I would think Charles would have a better connection to Storm or Cyclops who he's known for a lot longer with connections that have been established since they were kids. If perhaps Wolverine needed to be in charge because he's the one who Charles could use to do the 'by any means necessary' things that might be required to change the timeline, that could have been an interesting angle. I know there are continuities out there where Xavier is written as that kind of manipulative bastard; I just highly doubt this is one of them.
As a small aside, Bobby has been such a non-character that even as the Brotherhood plane was icing up, I was assuming it was Storm messing with the environmental conditions. Kitty has been more of a character than he has, and she's mostly characterized by her very useful power set.
My big question of the episode though, is why is Rogue still wearing all her X-men gear? She's turned her back on them, even if for a while she justified it as them turning their backs on her and casting her out into the world. Again, not knowing enough of the larger mythology at work here; are the Brotherhood a known band of terrorists? Wouldn't her running around decked out in X-men symbols while working with a terrorist band of other mutants perhaps send an awkward message about where each organization stood?
I also wish we'd had another Rogue episode since episode 2; one where we saw the Brotherhood as, if not the good guys (because kids show) at least a view into their justification, and we understand why Rogue would want to ally with them. Say if the Brotherhood had been after the suppression collar, just to keep it out of the government's hands, because the Brotherhood wouldn't want that any more than the X-men. Show that Rogue does actually like these guys, and feels like they're more proactive in the real fight for mutant rights than the X-men are. And yet we could still see that their methods are not okay, that they go too far or don't care about collateral damage (not that the X-men do that much), that could be how Toad got captured so Rogue sees that the Brotherhood aren't super loyal to their members if their mood changes.
Because this episode feels somehow both like Rogue's been with them a while and has gotten beaten down and regrets her choice to join, and like she just joined up and is still just doing it to spite the family back home. A middle step on that arc could have helped with that a lot.
More of this, less of the Hulk.
