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tori_reviews2023-12-29 11:33 pm
jedi_of_urth) wrote in tori_reviews2023-12-29 11:33 pm
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Frasier 3x20-24
Frasier 3x21: Where There's Smoke There's Fired
This is another of the episodes I have this vague memory of seeing before I really understood the show I was watching, and not since then when I would have. Because I have a wrong memory of the whole cast in on the chain of people who need a smoke after Bebe's speech, and it turns out it was only Daphne and Martin (not sure what it says that I didn't think it sounded very appealing, it was clearly meant to but I just thought it sounded silly).
It also feels like they were trying something different with Bebe here than we've gotten before. Previously her role has always been as Frasier's agent, but here she is an independent operator, we see her putting her machinations to work for her own benefit instead of on behalf of her clients (so for her good indirectly), and I don't remember how much we see of this treatment of her going forward.
This is a very...settled episode. It couldn't have come much earlier in the series as it relies on audience familiarity with the characters and their individual natures. It's almost a bottle episode, with so much of it taking place in the apartment, and almost entirely in the living room at that. I actually think this is if not the first time, one of the first times we've had a scene with just the five mains hanging out in the apartment, which does become a bit more commonplace as the show goes along, as they become even more of a family with time.
Production: 7/10 I do like a bottle episode, though I think it does press some of the staging into awkward choices (why and how is Martin in the front bathroom?)
Story: 8/10 it comes on a little sudden and a bit forced, but I like it
Writing: 3/5
Characters: 4/5
Relationships: 3.5/5 what we get is good, but it's not particularly relationship driven
Comedy: 3.5/5
Drama: 2.5/5
Personal: 7/10
Overall: 38.5/50
Frasier 3x22: Frasier Loves Roz
I'm having a hard time knowing how to feel about this ep. I like it, but it feels like it was aiming to be a bigger deal than it really is. But it seems unlikely that they were really intending to set up another will-they-won't-they subplot, especially one where there is not an inherent reason why they won't; so the deal almost feels like it's there to parallel Niles and Daphne with the irony that Daphne can suspect Frasier's behavior towards Roz in a way she never considers Niles' attitude towards her (I'm pretty sure at least some of Frasier's snips here have been said by Niles about Daphne's love interests). But some of that comes from a long view since it will end up being Frasier who tells her about Niles.
I don't remember ever shipping Frasier and Roz, even when I was younger, and as I'm older I appreciate that they were friends rather than constantly juggling feelings for each other. I know the possibility is flirted with on occasion through the series, and maybe I'll end up wishing they ended up together but my standing opinion is that while I probably would have been okay if they did, I'm fine with the fact they didn't.
Production: 5.5/10 pretty average all around, fine but nothing stands out
Story: 7/10
Writing: 3.5/5 I can't decide if I really liked the sarcastic time skips, but at least the time span is acknowledged
Characters: 3.5/5 I'm not crazy about some of Niles' choices, but it's good for Frasier and Roz, and I do like the irony with Daphne
Relationships: 4/5
Comedy: 3.5/5
Drama: 3/5 the ethics resolution is a little odd
Personal: 7/10
Overall: 37/50
Frasier 3x23: The Focus Group
If we think of there being a line between an acceptable amount of cringing and too much cringe-induction, this episode is bouncing back and forth across that line all episode. I could very much identify with Martin in the last scene hiding his face in his arm because this was a very cringy episode.
And that applies to both plots, which may be part of the problem. Not only are Frasier and Niles both behaving badly, but they're not even united in their actions so at least it's jointly throwing themselves off the edge. I suppose there is a certain amount of parallel , but not a lot.
It also doesn't help that in the years since this was made, I've seen the focus group plot done in other stories so it feels like an old plot even though it might not have at the time (not that this was probably the first to use it either). And, never having been in a focus group, but someone who does do reviews like this one, sometimes you can just like or dislike something without being quite sure why. English was clearly Manu's second language, maybe some of Frasier's word play didn't work for him; maybe he doesn't listen to a lot of talk radio (that would be my response) maybe there were a couple in-jokes for regular listeners that he wasn't into. I do get Frasier, I'm not good at criticism either, but I also don't understand the appeal of the Frasier Crane Show in universe. Hopefully Frasier didn't try and work on YouTube later in life.
As for Niles, I almost don't buy that he would ever have said the things to Daphne that started the initial fight. I do get that he was on edge and so got in a snit that escalated, but Niles' usual attitude towards Daphne, even her interests he doesn't agree with, is usually so accommodating. That said, once he starts, the rising enegry and fire of the argument does work, their chemistry very much on display. And considering I have seen the later series and know their first time is in the midst of a sexually charged fight, I kind of wonder what would have happened if Martin hadn't broken the argument early. But then him trying to pick a fight was very cringy
Production: 9/10 I don't think I have any complaints
Story: 8/10 good but a bit too much cringe
Writing: 5/5
Characters: 4/5 I still think Niles is a little off,, not badly enough to note
Relationships: 3/5 could have done with more Frasier and Roz and/or paralleling between Frasier and Niles
Comedy: 3.5/5 I did laugh a lot, but I also cringed a lot, and credits gag was pretty uncomfortable
Drama: 2/5 there wasn't much
Personal: 7.5/10 there's not anything really wrong with it, but my personal tastes aren't for this much cringing
Overall: 42/50
Frasier 3x24: You Can Go Home Again
This episode is, quite frankly, a mess in terms of continuity; but its moral is good so I'm not sure how to rank a lot of it. The problem is in the specifics, in spirit I can accept this as effectively how Frasier's early days in Seattle worked, how awkward he was on the show and how distant the family was, but the timing is just a mess.
I do understand the choice here, so far the season finales for this show have been reflective on where the characters are and have been and this is also based on being reflective. But it also isn't the very contained and intimate reflection of the previous finales, it's trying to actually create the history, but it's not trying very hard. The actors are trying to play their characters as they were at the start of the show; but the writing is doing it with a blunt instrument and they put no effort at all into the characters' looks.
And the timeline offered here just doesn't work. From my hazy memory, when Cheers ended Frasier and Lilith were still working on fixing their relationship. And while I doubt the date was said specifically, it would have been assumed to be in mid-May. So in that time Frasier and Lilith decided they were completely done, went through the whole messy divorce (so we've been told), Frasier decided to move to Seattle, found a job, drove across country, and has moved into his apartment (maybe not completely). And while I commended the actors for trying to recapture the characters at an earlier point, KG certainly doesn't play Frasier as if his life had just fallen apart that quickly. Maybe, in terms of a retcon, we can say that Frasier and Lilith didn't reunite for very long after she came back, that they were getting divorced during the last few eps of Cheers, with Frasier planning on leaving, he just hadn't told anyone yet? It's a stretch, but with my limited memory I might be willing to allow it; if I remembered better I might not.
Because Niles is the character who has changed the most since the show started, he ends up being the one I feel I could do the most reflection on. I don't know who to give specific credit for this to, but he does come across as...less unhappy than he did even much of s1. He actually believes he's happy in his life, while much of his arc in s1 is realizing that he isn't (confirmed in the s1 finale), which as I've said before I think is part Daphne and part Frasier and Martin. For years, since Hester died at least, his defining relationship has been with Maris, and he's convinced himself that he has everything he wants and his family is just kind of this thing in the background. But as he restores his relationship with Frasier and then Martin they become defining relationships again so he can define himself outside of Maris. And Daphne...wanting Daphne throws into stark contrast how emotionless the rest of his life is; and on level has to make him consider what it says about the state of his marriage that he would have those kinds of feelings for Daphne. Though I do like this episode's take, that on some instinctive level he'd be drawn to her even before he laid eyes on her.
Production: 4/10 the actors try, but there's so little effort otherwise
Story: 6/10 continuity problems aside, I do respond to the feeling of the episode
Writing: 2/5
Characters: 2.5/5
Relationships: 3.5/5 I will give it credit for showing how far things have come, but it doesn't progress much
Comedy: 3/5
Drama: 3/5
Personal: 6/10
Overall: 30/50
This is another of the episodes I have this vague memory of seeing before I really understood the show I was watching, and not since then when I would have. Because I have a wrong memory of the whole cast in on the chain of people who need a smoke after Bebe's speech, and it turns out it was only Daphne and Martin (not sure what it says that I didn't think it sounded very appealing, it was clearly meant to but I just thought it sounded silly).
It also feels like they were trying something different with Bebe here than we've gotten before. Previously her role has always been as Frasier's agent, but here she is an independent operator, we see her putting her machinations to work for her own benefit instead of on behalf of her clients (so for her good indirectly), and I don't remember how much we see of this treatment of her going forward.
This is a very...settled episode. It couldn't have come much earlier in the series as it relies on audience familiarity with the characters and their individual natures. It's almost a bottle episode, with so much of it taking place in the apartment, and almost entirely in the living room at that. I actually think this is if not the first time, one of the first times we've had a scene with just the five mains hanging out in the apartment, which does become a bit more commonplace as the show goes along, as they become even more of a family with time.
Production: 7/10 I do like a bottle episode, though I think it does press some of the staging into awkward choices (why and how is Martin in the front bathroom?)
Story: 8/10 it comes on a little sudden and a bit forced, but I like it
Writing: 3/5
Characters: 4/5
Relationships: 3.5/5 what we get is good, but it's not particularly relationship driven
Comedy: 3.5/5
Drama: 2.5/5
Personal: 7/10
Overall: 38.5/50
Frasier 3x22: Frasier Loves Roz
I'm having a hard time knowing how to feel about this ep. I like it, but it feels like it was aiming to be a bigger deal than it really is. But it seems unlikely that they were really intending to set up another will-they-won't-they subplot, especially one where there is not an inherent reason why they won't; so the deal almost feels like it's there to parallel Niles and Daphne with the irony that Daphne can suspect Frasier's behavior towards Roz in a way she never considers Niles' attitude towards her (I'm pretty sure at least some of Frasier's snips here have been said by Niles about Daphne's love interests). But some of that comes from a long view since it will end up being Frasier who tells her about Niles.
I don't remember ever shipping Frasier and Roz, even when I was younger, and as I'm older I appreciate that they were friends rather than constantly juggling feelings for each other. I know the possibility is flirted with on occasion through the series, and maybe I'll end up wishing they ended up together but my standing opinion is that while I probably would have been okay if they did, I'm fine with the fact they didn't.
Production: 5.5/10 pretty average all around, fine but nothing stands out
Story: 7/10
Writing: 3.5/5 I can't decide if I really liked the sarcastic time skips, but at least the time span is acknowledged
Characters: 3.5/5 I'm not crazy about some of Niles' choices, but it's good for Frasier and Roz, and I do like the irony with Daphne
Relationships: 4/5
Comedy: 3.5/5
Drama: 3/5 the ethics resolution is a little odd
Personal: 7/10
Overall: 37/50
Frasier 3x23: The Focus Group
If we think of there being a line between an acceptable amount of cringing and too much cringe-induction, this episode is bouncing back and forth across that line all episode. I could very much identify with Martin in the last scene hiding his face in his arm because this was a very cringy episode.
And that applies to both plots, which may be part of the problem. Not only are Frasier and Niles both behaving badly, but they're not even united in their actions so at least it's jointly throwing themselves off the edge. I suppose there is a certain amount of parallel , but not a lot.
It also doesn't help that in the years since this was made, I've seen the focus group plot done in other stories so it feels like an old plot even though it might not have at the time (not that this was probably the first to use it either). And, never having been in a focus group, but someone who does do reviews like this one, sometimes you can just like or dislike something without being quite sure why. English was clearly Manu's second language, maybe some of Frasier's word play didn't work for him; maybe he doesn't listen to a lot of talk radio (that would be my response) maybe there were a couple in-jokes for regular listeners that he wasn't into. I do get Frasier, I'm not good at criticism either, but I also don't understand the appeal of the Frasier Crane Show in universe. Hopefully Frasier didn't try and work on YouTube later in life.
As for Niles, I almost don't buy that he would ever have said the things to Daphne that started the initial fight. I do get that he was on edge and so got in a snit that escalated, but Niles' usual attitude towards Daphne, even her interests he doesn't agree with, is usually so accommodating. That said, once he starts, the rising enegry and fire of the argument does work, their chemistry very much on display. And considering I have seen the later series and know their first time is in the midst of a sexually charged fight, I kind of wonder what would have happened if Martin hadn't broken the argument early. But then him trying to pick a fight was very cringy
Production: 9/10 I don't think I have any complaints
Story: 8/10 good but a bit too much cringe
Writing: 5/5
Characters: 4/5 I still think Niles is a little off,, not badly enough to note
Relationships: 3/5 could have done with more Frasier and Roz and/or paralleling between Frasier and Niles
Comedy: 3.5/5 I did laugh a lot, but I also cringed a lot, and credits gag was pretty uncomfortable
Drama: 2/5 there wasn't much
Personal: 7.5/10 there's not anything really wrong with it, but my personal tastes aren't for this much cringing
Overall: 42/50
Frasier 3x24: You Can Go Home Again
This episode is, quite frankly, a mess in terms of continuity; but its moral is good so I'm not sure how to rank a lot of it. The problem is in the specifics, in spirit I can accept this as effectively how Frasier's early days in Seattle worked, how awkward he was on the show and how distant the family was, but the timing is just a mess.
I do understand the choice here, so far the season finales for this show have been reflective on where the characters are and have been and this is also based on being reflective. But it also isn't the very contained and intimate reflection of the previous finales, it's trying to actually create the history, but it's not trying very hard. The actors are trying to play their characters as they were at the start of the show; but the writing is doing it with a blunt instrument and they put no effort at all into the characters' looks.
And the timeline offered here just doesn't work. From my hazy memory, when Cheers ended Frasier and Lilith were still working on fixing their relationship. And while I doubt the date was said specifically, it would have been assumed to be in mid-May. So in that time Frasier and Lilith decided they were completely done, went through the whole messy divorce (so we've been told), Frasier decided to move to Seattle, found a job, drove across country, and has moved into his apartment (maybe not completely). And while I commended the actors for trying to recapture the characters at an earlier point, KG certainly doesn't play Frasier as if his life had just fallen apart that quickly. Maybe, in terms of a retcon, we can say that Frasier and Lilith didn't reunite for very long after she came back, that they were getting divorced during the last few eps of Cheers, with Frasier planning on leaving, he just hadn't told anyone yet? It's a stretch, but with my limited memory I might be willing to allow it; if I remembered better I might not.
Because Niles is the character who has changed the most since the show started, he ends up being the one I feel I could do the most reflection on. I don't know who to give specific credit for this to, but he does come across as...less unhappy than he did even much of s1. He actually believes he's happy in his life, while much of his arc in s1 is realizing that he isn't (confirmed in the s1 finale), which as I've said before I think is part Daphne and part Frasier and Martin. For years, since Hester died at least, his defining relationship has been with Maris, and he's convinced himself that he has everything he wants and his family is just kind of this thing in the background. But as he restores his relationship with Frasier and then Martin they become defining relationships again so he can define himself outside of Maris. And Daphne...wanting Daphne throws into stark contrast how emotionless the rest of his life is; and on level has to make him consider what it says about the state of his marriage that he would have those kinds of feelings for Daphne. Though I do like this episode's take, that on some instinctive level he'd be drawn to her even before he laid eyes on her.
Production: 4/10 the actors try, but there's so little effort otherwise
Story: 6/10 continuity problems aside, I do respond to the feeling of the episode
Writing: 2/5
Characters: 2.5/5
Relationships: 3.5/5 I will give it credit for showing how far things have come, but it doesn't progress much
Comedy: 3/5
Drama: 3/5
Personal: 6/10
Overall: 30/50